+7
Under review

convert profits to base currency

HedgeBitcoin 7 months ago in A problem with investment program updated by vikashait 7 months ago 28

Instead of converting the profits into GVT for investors, The investor should have the option to get paid in the base currency of the program to prevent also profits lost through conversion. 

-1
Under review

Dear Client,

Thank you for your valuable feedback! We'll transfer it to our management for their further review.

Best regards,

GV team

+2

i think initial thought was that team will use it's reserve to perform the conversion. Initial buy of GVT will raise the sat as demand increases and then team using it's reserve to pay to investor in it's currency and team slowly sell GVT  to not impact sat value . Pay in GVT is very important for creating buy pressure and that's the whole purpose for utility. Slowly killing GVT utility will just move the project out of tokenomics . 



It is important to pay profit in GVT  for using GVT as utility otherwise GVT will only be used for  getting discounts in trading fee which will not attract hodler interest and it might loose it's interest. (I will probably loose my interest from GVT as well )

+1

Dear Client,

Thank you for your opinion, all the community's concerns and ideas will be reviewed by our management.

Best regards,

GV Team.

Nope. Investor's need to be free to chose the pay out currency, right now they lose profits when they convert the profit from GVT.

The team helpfully understand this issue and will act in the best interest of all.

+3

I understand that investor will lose profit when they convert from GVT and that's why I mentioned the point that GV team has to use reserved cash/BTC for the payouts (if investor wants to sell profit GVT instantly) and later GV team sell those obtained GVT in exchange in a way that it does not impact the buy/sell pressure. This way investor will not lose any profit in conversion.  


This is what was discussed and agreed on last year.  I am not proposing anything new here

PS: I hope down the line binance allow USDT/GVT pairing and that will ease up this conversion hack as well. 

-3

What's the benefit for GV and GVT in doing something like this? What benefit you see in GVT get from being used as the unique currency for paying out profit's?...taken in account that those who don't want it, sell right away to USDt, BTC or ETH.

I see no positive point, on the other hand it's full of negative point:

  • Investor's lose profit's and time in the conversion to USDT, BTC or ETH,
  • Big investor's aren't incentivante to invest when they get profit in a currency that don't have enough volume,
  • The profit a manager made can be shrink two times before the investors get it in the preferred currency, when GVT get market bought before the distribution to investors and when it's converted in the app with a market sell by those who don't want profit's in the forced currency.

-1

I  also don't agree and it will definitely impact the tokenomics.

I am holding GVT since ICO and have been following updates and news since then. I remember this was discussed earlier and all agreed that profit will be distributed in GVT and please leave it as it is.

I think the average amount currently investors investing in the program is around $100 and I don't think they are really using discount feature by holding 1K - 10K GVT in platform wallet. I guess if they have that many GVT probably they will invest it in another program and get profits which they can use a substitute for discounts by holding and Genesis vision team can confirm it since that have all the stats of investing in the last 1 year. So inflating the price of GVT by expecting Investors will always hold X GVT to avail discount feature is not going to work. 

Only people who would be leveraging trading discount feature by holding GVT in platform wallet would be Program managers and they are very few in numbers

Someone from outside of crypto would not be interested to hold huge numbers of GVT token in the platform wallet.  Also, many investors feel safe of holding GVT in ether wallet or Binance instead of GV platform wallet (trust will take time to get built).

So the only tokenomics which will work in long term is distributing profit in GVT. I agree that some percentage will be lost in conversion or so but that number is very low and can be covered if GV team uses reserve smartly to pay. 

+1

Totally agree with Hedge here. There is not a single valid point in forcing investors to receive profit in an asset that they don't asked for so in most case goes to be converted right away, causing a loss of profit for them due to slippage and fees.

This could be avoided by following the solution proposed by Hedge or by letting investor's chose the payout currency so they aren't forced to convert it right after in the preferred one.

The argument of GVT losing one of it's utility by doing this don't stand. Forcing a currency in payout don't give GVT any plus (since user's convert a unasked asset anyway) it's just worsen their experience with unnecessary steps and loss in profit's and fee due to the conversion.

Moreover this issue disincentive big investors, since the idea of being force to receive potential profit in a asset with low volume and high slippage isn't a great prospective.

GVT have already many solid use cases and more could be added, forcing it as payout for profit ins't one of them and don't help GVT in anyway. It just worsen the experience of investors. To scale this limit should be eliminated as I see it.

-3

I would better use eToro if this is implemented because of thats what eToro does. holding GVT will become worthless !! 

Frank is correct, usage of GVT for only trading discounts is not going to propagate well across hodlers . 

-2

Investor's who get paid out profit in GVT, convert it anyway if they don't want it.

So what's the point of forcing them to receive profit in GVT?

    +1

    you missed the main point here and that is 

    Platform to use "Reserved Cash/BTC" for instant conversion instead of selling it in exchange. if that's implemented then I don't see any reason for not giving profit in GVT. it might happen that the investor does not sell GVT instantly as he sees some gains in holding it. 

    Investors don't hold just because you forced them to receive profit in a particular currency. Simple as that.

    The consequent conversion of GVT to the preferred investor currency is a pain due to slippage and fee, this can be avoided by letting them chose the preferred currency for payout or by following Hedge proposal above.

     


    -1

    why is it difficult to understand one term

    "RESERVED CASH/BTC" 


    The proposal is, GV platform to keep some moving CASH/BTC aside to do these on-demand conversions for investors who really want to cash out instantly. By doing this there is no need for the platform to sell those GVT in exchanges and Platform can, later on, sell them in exchange without creating sell pressure. 

    +1

    "Sell them in exchange without creating sell pressure." You can't sell something without generating sell pressure.


    The project don't have any incentive to do something like this, the token can skyrocket or dump at anytime. Why they will take the responsibility and economic risk of holding an unstable for a uncertain amount of time asset after they sent you the corresponding value in another asset.

    The possibility for them to suffer economic loss is crazy high by doing this. 

    +10

    can someone explain why GVT will not become worthless after implementing this??? and how the platform is going to help in appreciating GVT token value ???   

    +3

    GVT use cases:

    • Fee reduction
    • Referral program
    • GV Follow
    • Quarterly burn
    • Fund allocation...

    All those use case become huge once the platform scale with investors growing. This is the goal of GV and GVT.

    Forcing payout profit in GVT don't help the token and platform in any way, people just sell it right after if they don't want it.

    So it's better to let them chose, to eliminate the pain for those who lose profit and time in the conversion because received a currency unasked/unwanted.

    In the end GVT don't lose any utility and investor's are free to chose with a better experience without losing profit and time in a avoidable conversion.

    -1

    exactly implementing this will make holding GVT worthless. 

    +2

    Well good luck with that as I dont see any of those helping in appreciating GVT token value greatly 



     Fee reduction
    - anyone other than manager using it now?? I doubt that , i would better invest 1000GVT worth in another program than getting 1% HUGE discount. Thats not worth locking my dear friend, Holding BTC would give me better gains

  • Referral program - again not sure how this will greatly help in appreciating GVT token value 
  • GV Follow - this will have same issue that investor getting paid in GVT . isnt this contradict this requirement. Holy sh*t
  • Quarterly burn - not going to help in appreciating GVT token value. reducing 1% of total circulating supply will take few years from now even if price stays at $1.  if GVT token price increases to >$5 or so, then forget it
  • Fund allocation - 1% you need 10,000 or more funds to really see some action on GVT token price.  
  • All these are very hypothetical

    -3

    Those are not hypothetical, those are all great use case that give the token a incredible value as the platform grow.

    Besides, I haven't heard from you what benefit GVT get from being used as the only pay out option for profit's.

    very hypothetical. You didn't respond to points he has pointed . Anyway I rest my case here. 

    -4

    Hedge (the biggest fund manager on GV) proposed this because he can see that issue of forcing GVT for profit payout create right now for many investors.

    Most of those who don't agree, can't even make a valid point for GVT being forced as the only currency for pay outs...because they don't understand the platform economic and are scared the token could lose value.

    The token will not lose value because of this, maybe will lose some of those bag holder that are here just to see the token rise in price...and that's would be good for the platform, we need more investor's and manager this will help GV, GVT and the team to achieve the big picture.

    -1

    Agreed. I believe many hodler will sell including me if GVT tokenomics is merely reduced to discounts as rest bullet point really doesn't matter as he is hyping them 

    I agree, this change will eventually kill the purpose of GVT token altogether. The platform will work the way it is working now. 

    Even Covesting is planning to distribute profit in COV. that's the whole reason we saw potential of GVT rise.

    Also, 94K meme was purely built on GVT profit concept and this change will totally be going to destroy that assumption.

    -1

    The team has to find an alternate approach to handle this. removing GVT from profit tokenomics will impact the sentiment of holders badly

    I am not liking this as a long time hodler

    +2

    After reading both +ve and -ve concern I feel Team has to be really cautious in eliminating the prospect of what was promised in the Genesis vision white paper but instead try to find a balance that should be accepted by both the parties. Just because this post got more likes doesn't mean that it's a win-win situation for all. 

    -1

    i agree with paying profits out in base currency. Took a year to get parents to buy btc. You could only imagine how much it's taking to get to convince them to sign up to my ref link to invest and earn gvt. 

    +6

    Paying in GVT is very important for Tokenomics and appreciating GVT token price and I will prove it with example scenarios. First of all, this issue will slightly be visible now when GVT token price is very low at around $1. We all believe in Genesis vision and expect that GVT token price will appreciate in the coming months. So slippage in the price of GVT when investors sell will not create the sell pressure when price of GVT token reaches around 10, 50, 100, 1000. Here is an example of a program

    1) AUM of Program: $10000

    2) profit: 100%

    3) Program ending AUM: $20000

    4) no of investors: 100

    5) Profit to be distributed: $10000


    for simplicity purposes, let us imagine all investors invested $100 equally to program. Now let us evaluate profit distribution scenario for the same program for different GVT token prices

    1) Token price: $1

     - no GVT token buy from the market for distribution: 10000 GVT

    -  Each investor Token profit share: 100 GVT

    2) Token price: $10

     - no GVT token buy from the market for distribution: 1000 GVT

    -  Each investor Token profit share: 10 GVT

    3) Token price: $100

    - no GVT token buy from the market for distribution: 100 GVT

    - Each investor Token profit share: 1 GVT

    4) Token price: $1000

     - no GVT token buy from the market for distribution: 10 GVT

    - Each investor Token profit share: 0.1 GVT

    So you can now see with an increase in GVT token value bulk buy price is huge (which will appreciate the GVT token value even further up as Platform buy at marker order) but since GVT is distributed to all investors, individual GVT share is very low and that should not impact the sell pressure of token. We also expect an increase in GVT exchange volume with price appreciation.

    Also, another point to which is missed out here is that all investors are not geolocated  (different country investors ) in same timezone, So selling will not happen at the same time as well.

    The Genesis Vision team can further enhance the GVT distribution process by implementing smarter buy/sell bot algorithms, implementing Reserve Cash concept,  delay distribution of profit based on user timezone, etc 


    I hope this explanation will clear some of the misconceptions illustrated above.

    Cheers

    GVT hodler/visioner
     

     

    Nicely explained, This should be marked as accepted answer